[WEBINAR] FRTB – Are Banks Ready To Be Compliant?

23-11-2022 | treasuryXL | Refinitiv | LinkedIn |

Join experts across the industry for this complimentary webinar to explore how to prepare for – and comply – with the Fundamental Review of the Trading Book (FRTB) regulation in 2023.

DETAILS:

  • Webinar: FRTB – are banks ready to be compliant?
  • Date: Tuesday, November 29
  • Time: 09:00 EST / 14:00 GMT / 15:00 CET
  • Speakers:
    • Hany Farag, Senior Director and Head of Risk Methodology and Analytics, CIBC
    • Fausto Marseglia, Head of Product Management, FRTB and Regulatory Propositions, Refinitiv, an LSEG Business
    • [Moderator] Lisa Regan, Head of Sales, EMEA, Enterprise Data, Refinitiv, an LSEG Business\
    • Volker Wellmann, Risk and Resource Manager at BNP Paribas, BNP Pariba



 

 

Register today

 

Why you need to automate swap execution

22-11-2022 | treasuryXL | Kantox | LinkedIn |

Do you struggle with having a perfect match between your currency hedging position and the cash settlement of the underlying commercial exposure? We’ll let you in on a secret: most treasurers and finance teams do. But how can you simplify this time-consuming and resource-intensive task? In this article, we show why you need to automate swap execution and how you can do it.

We reveal why this is an essential issue for treasurers, how it’s typically handled, and why automated swap execution can help finance teams play a more strategic role in the business. 

Setting the scene

Treasurers know that it is practically impossible to have a perfect match between the firm’s currency hedging position and the cash settlement of the underlying commercial exposure. That’s especially the case if those hedges were taken long before. This is why swapping is so essential.

Let us briefly see an example. If you have a ‘long’ USD forward position with a given value date and you need, say, 10% of that amount in cash right now, a swap agreement allows you to perform that adjustment.

With the ‘near leg’ of the swap, you buy the required amount of USD in the spot market while simultaneously selling —with the ‘far leg’ of the swap— the same amount of USD at the value date of the forward contract. And that’s how you adjust your firm’s hedging position.

Pain points: a resource-intensive activity

Swapping can be extremely time-consuming and resource-intensive, particularly if many transactions, currencies and liquidity providers are involved. We recently saw how a large European food producer was struggling mightily with manual swap execution, a dreadful situation faced by many, if not most, companies.

Among the most common pain points, we can cite the following three:

  • Operational risk. Many tasks are manually executed: retrieving incoming payments, selecting liquidity providers and confirming trades. The entire workflow relies on emails that circulate back and forth with spreadsheets carrying potential data input errors, copy & paste errors, formatting errors, and formula errors.
  • Lack of traceability. Lack of proper traceability hinders the process of assessing hedging performance, as swap legs are manually traced back to the corresponding forward contracts.
  • Risk of unethical behaviour. Understood as the risk that early mistakes that are not immediately reported may lead to severe losses down the road, it is prevalent throughout.

Traceability and automated swap execution

Traceability is when each element along the journey from FX-denominated entry to position to operation to payment has its own unique reference number. But how can we apply this concept to solve the problem of manual swap execution?

The answer is automated swap execution, a solution that is embedded in Currency Management Automation software. It relies on the perfect end-to-end traceability between the different ‘legs’ of a swap agreement and the original forward contract. Meanwhile, FX gains/losses and swap points are automatically calculated. It’s dead simple!

Swap automation is a powerful tool for the treasury team. At the company level, it opens the way to:

  • According to recent surveys, increasing the efficiency of treasury operations is the No. 1 expectation in tech for CFOs.
  • Using more currencies in the business to take advantage of the profit-margin enhancing possibilities of ‘embracing currencies’.
  • Taking a concrete step toward the ‘digital treasury’ is a concern voiced by many CFOs and treasurers.

At a personal level, in terms of the daily workload of members of the treasury team, automated swap execution means:

  • More time to concentrate on high-value-adding tasks such as fine-tuning and improving cash flow forecasts.
  • Reduced stress levels.
  • Increased productivity at work.

And that’s no small achievement! 

Interview | 9 questions for Kurt Smith, Seasoned Treasury Expert

21-11-2022 | treasuryXL | Kurt Smith | LinkedIn |

 

Meet our newest expert for the treasuryXL community, Kurt Smith.

Kurt is a Director of Marengo Capital, a corporate advisory company specialising in treasury, financial markets, corporate finance and private equity. Marengo Capital has a track record of, and passion for, creating and managing for long term enterprise value by aligning corporate strategy, finance and risk.

Kurt is also the Vice President and Technical Director of the Australian Corporate Treasury Association, a member of the Australian Payments Network Stakeholder Advisory Council, and a member of FX Markets Asia Advisory Board.  His career includes senior positions across fund management, bank derivative trading, Fintech, private equity and corporate treasury.  He has a Ph.D in Finance and is a graduate of the University of Cambridge.

Kurt is an engaging and compelling public speaker with substantial experience in presenting, being a panellist and master of ceremonies, for intimate and large audiences in Australia, Asia, Europe, and the United States.  He is well known for providing unique insights into new and well-worn issues, balancing contrarian thinking with informed judgment, and communicating highly technical issues to non-technical audiences.

 

We asked Kurt 9 questions, let’s go!

INTERVIEW

 

 

1. How did your treasury journey start?

I started in financial markets, firstly as a portfolio manager with a macro fund, and secondly as an FX option trader and Head of Derivative Trading for a commercial bank.  While I enjoyed the excitement, spontaneity, and commercial pressure of each day, I wanted something more fulfilling.

 

I became a Director in two FinTech companies commercialising option valuation and risk management technologies, one for the interbank exotic option market and the other for retail investors.  Sourcing capital for product development was a constant challenge but also very rewarding.  By this stage I was hooked on corporate treasury.  Treasury allowed me to direct my passion for financial markets to create, operate and scale businesses by funding growth and making them financially sustainable.

 

I then moved to a $10B+ corporate to run their treasury, corporate finance and insurance businesses.  My main responsibility was developing and implementing capital management and financial risk management strategies to ensure that the company target credit rating was achieved, while obtaining funding, allocating capital to investments, and hedging market exposures to reduce earnings volatility.

 

I am now a Director of Marengo Capital which specialises in creating and managing for value in corporate treasury and corporate finance.  I am still involved in FinTech as the Group CFO of a cash flow securitization company; and I am also the Vice President and Technical Director of the Australian Corporate Treasury Association, which is engaging with and improving the treasury community in Australia.

 

2. What do you like about working in Treasury?

 

I like that the success of the company is in your hands.  The company can formulate exciting corporate strategies and business plans, but those strategies and plans will not be delivered unless capital is sourced, structured and allocated properly, and financial risks are hedged to provide corporate resilience to business cycle downturns and adverse economic conditions.

When you think about it, it is a massive responsibility.  However, I prefer to think of it as a fantastic opportunity to make an impactful contribution.

 

3. What is your Treasury Expertise and what expertise gives you a boost of energy?

 

My specialist expertise is in creating and managing for long term enterprise value.  Increasing value is critical to increasing the capital funding capacity of the company and delivering into the main goals of Executives and the Board.  Most treasurers consider treasury a cost centre and do not have ambition to add value.  To me, that makes treasury a tax on the business, an overhead to be recovered by everyone else.  I believe that there are a large number of ways that treasury can add substantial value, by increasing cash flow not just forecasting it, managing the capital structure to reduce the cost of capital, and evaluating the allocation of capital to investments to ensure value accretive and efficient returns.

 

While I get a kick out of applying commercial acumen to improve businesses, I really get a kick out of convincing others to do the same, from decision-makers to operational teams.  I get very enthusiastic – but I truly believe that value is the key to financial sustainability, which is necessary for companies to do more of what they want to do.

 

4. What has been your best experience in your treasury career until today?

 

I built a very high-functioning treasury and got team members to work on several projects simultaneously in small multi-disciplinary teams.  Team leadership was based on expertise not the hierarchy, and it not only provided all team members with rapidly growing CVs to support their careers, it also provided opportunities for, and the most satisfying discovery of, junior employees with real talent fast tracking into leadership succession planning.  This way of working was new to all of us, and we created a lot of value and had a lot of fun doing it!

 

5. What has been your biggest challenge in treasury?

 

I worked for a capital-intensive company that had rapidly growing capital expenditure to be funded predominantly by debt, during an expected aggressive interest rate tightening cycle.  The rates market had already factored five sequential monetary policy tightenings into the yield curve, such that fixed rates for term debt were very high.  Our analysis showed that in most foreseeable scenarios floating rates would outperform fixed rates, even during sharp tightening cycles.  We went with the maximum allocation to floating rates, and over the next five years interest rates decreased markedly, and we used those decreases to gradually re-weight floating rate exposure back to their neutral weight.

This was a real risk management lesson for me, that is applicable now.  One has to take emotion out decisions, especially fear, do the analysis and trust your instincts.  Worked for us!

 

6. What’s the most important lesson that you’ve learned as a treasurer?

 

Communication is crucial, especially verbal communication.

Executives, Boards and operational teams do not understand treasury and corporate finance.  Treasurers need to be able to communicate complex technical information in a persuasive and compelling way to non-technical audiences.  For example, I prepared a 35-page capital management strategy working paper that I turned into a six-page Board paper, and my presentation to the Board was a single diagram on one slide.  If they were not convinced in the first few minutes, all that work would have been wasted.  Communication is key, and I believe it is a defining characteristic between the best and the rest.

 

7. How have you seen the role of Corporate Treasury evolve over the years?

 

Corporate treasury was formerly a satellite of the business that was involved at the end of the value-chain, to be engaged only when funding of spend and hedging of exposures was required.  As a result, treasury did not influence decisions, it just implemented them.

Good corporate treasuries today are deeply integrated with, and embedded into the DNA of, their businesses; and, as a result, are involved at the beginning of the value-chain where they can influence outcomes.  This is a much more interesting space to play in.

 

8. What developments do you expect in corporate treasury in the near and further future?

 

Everyone is focusing on using technology, digitalisation and data rich environments to reduce operational risk, release resources and gain insights.  This is understandable given the change in the technology landscape and eco-system.

However, I believe that we will have to focus increasingly on our human resources as we re-examine whether the treasury operating model, governance architecture, people, processes and systems are fit-for-purpose not only now, but for the future.  Are our selection processes biased towards technocrats with limited ability to engage and communicate?  Do we hire and / or cultivate businesspeople with commercial acumen?  Do we encourage out-of-the-box innovation or do we effectively enforce the status quo through a relentless drive for efficiency?  I see treasury as a business within a business, and that it should be run as such.

 

9. Is there anything that you would like to share with our treasury followers that they must know from you?

 

As a community of treasury professionals we all have a responsibility to improve the standard of the profession, and to contribute to the recognition of the profession as a profession!  In this regard, treasuryXL is doing a fantastic job of bringing us all together and giving us opportunities to share, learn, explore and discuss treasury.  Let’s make sure that we contribute more than we take out, so that we add value overall.

 

Want to connect with Kurt? Click here

 

Thanks for reading!

 

 

Kendra Keydeniers

Director Community & Partners, treasuryXL

The 3 Fundamental Treasury Concepts: Working Capital Management

17-11-2022 | Vasu Reddy | treasuryXL | LinkedIn |

The 3 fundamental treasury concepts being discussed currently include Working Capital Management, Bank Relationships and Treasury Transfer Pricing which are pivotal pillars for effectively and efficiently optimizing cash, liquidity,  funding and managing risk for any Treasury function to support the achievement of the organizations business objectives and strategy. In the current blog of a series of 3, Vasu Reddy explains the best practices and benefits of Working Capital Management.

Trade and Working Capital Management Products offered by banks

Working Capital Management involves working with supply, purchase, procurement, production, delivery and sales.

What are the best practices to improve working capital balances?

  • Letter of Credits for imports, Bank Guarantees instead of cash prepayments, Documentary Collections
  • Trade loans, overdrafts
  • Structured Trade and commodity finance
  • Supplier/commercial Finance – including ESG – Green Bonds 
  • Bills & LC Discounting to improve cash collection
  • Receivables Discounting to monetize cash and reduce past dues with poor paying customers with no recourse
  • Securitization of receivables on customer contracts executed mainly by Mobile operators 
  • Selling Debt to off-taker/3rd parties with minimal haircut  
  • Procurement/Travel credit cards

Benefits from these practices

  • Trade finance improves working capital Efficiency, reduces borrowing costs and enhances cash flow.

What are the best practices for Cash and Liquidity Management?

  • Implementation and use of Online banking –Centralized single banking platform across region of operation
  • Robust cash planning and forecasting policies to ensure accurate cash flow forecasting by  working with Accounts Receivables, Payables and FP&A teams including businesses to submit monthly forecasts with post month-end review discussions to understand any material variations and investigation thereof. This must be CFO Endorsed to get overall Treasury, Finance, business collaboration. 
  • Overnight/Money market deposits – Invest excess surplus cash 
  • Structured Cash Sweeping/Cash Pooling arrangements for all LE’s – to minimize having excess cash in one country and simultaneously having borrowing in another country
  • Interest Optimization structures with Regional/Global banks to take advantage of wallet size 

“Cash is the life blood to sustain operations”  Vasu Reddy


Benefits from these practices

  • Reduced Borrowings/overdrafts, increased income 
  • Cash Visibility and improved  reporting and financial planning– Group Level 
  • Strong credit rating – improved Shareholder relationship/Returns
  • Strong positive cash flow and Balance sheet – Higher Dividend distribution
  • Cost savings, reduced manual interventions – errors, reduced head-count

Thank you for reading!

 

Vasu Reddy

Corporate Treasury, Finance Executive

Only one week left! Live Panel Discussion: Treasury Trends for 2023

10-11-2022 | treasuryXL | Nomentia | LinkedIn |

A friendly reminder that next week at 11 AM CET (November 17th), we’ll be collaborating with Nomentia.

Participate in our live panel discussion regarding 2023’s predicted treasury trends. We invited industry experts to join us and have an open debate about the issues that treasurers would need to think about in 2023. Additionally, there is the option to ask questions.

Date & Time: November 17, 2022, at 11 AM CET | Duration 45 minutes

Some of the topics we’ll cover:

  • Market and FX Risk management in current times of uncertainty.
  • Top treasury technologies to consider for 2023.
  • Will APIs deliver their promises?
  • Building the bridge between Ecommerce and treasury.
  • The rapidly changing role of treasury to facilitate business success
  • Treasury technology visions beyond 2023.p

 

SIGN UP TODAY

November 17 | 11 am CET | 45 minutes

Panel discussion members:

Pieter de Kiewit, Owner of Treasurer Search (Moderator)
Patrick Kunz, Independent Treasury Expert (Panel member)
Niki van Zanten, Independent Treasury Expert (Panel member)
Huub Wevers, Head of Sales at Nomentia (Panel member)

 

 

 

 

 

How Treasurers Can (Still) Get Ahead During Uncertain Times

08-11-2022 | treasuryXL | GTreasury | LinkedIn |

Victoria Blake, the Chief Product Officer at GTreasury, recently ran through four trends that corporate treasurers ought to be paying careful attention to—particularly as ongoing economic uncertainty heads into 2023.

Blake argues that “treasurers without a connected treasury are left playing an ever-widening game of catch-up.” She offers specific advice for how treasurers can approach FX rate visibility, cash forecasting, bank fee analysis, and API connectivity. This is a must-read treasurer as they plan their treasury technology strategies for 2023.

Read more at Treasury Management International

The Impact of Rising Interest Rates on Working Capital

07-11-2022 | treasuryXL | ComplexCountries | LinkedIn |

No apologies for the second report on working capital and interest rate rises in a short period: we are seeing significant changes in the business environment, and treasurers are being challenged.

Source

This call focused primarily on the higher interest rate environment. One participant was mostly concerned about how to invest excess cash – the others are grappling with rapidly increasing working capital, driven by the need to keep bigger buffers, due to COVID and the Russia/Ukraine war, and the long delays in logistics circuits.

Funding challenges:

  • One participant manages treasury for South America, where there have been significant rises in interest rates, and, in some countries, funding shortages, with banks unable to provide cash and prioritising local companies. The challenges have been manageable, and they have not had to resort to drawing down all their lines to make sure they are available. This behaviour, which is akin to the rush on toilet paper in supermarkets, has been an issue in many markets, including more developed ones. However, there has been some, limited, pre-funding around significant events.
  • This has led to an increase in the number of banks in the funding panel.
  • One participant prefers their subsidiaries to fund themselves locally – but the cost of higher interest rates (for example, 35% in Turkey) is dissuasive, even if, economically, they are significantly below the inflation rate (>80%).
  • There is an increased focus on being more efficient in the use of cash within the company, so more pressure on cross-border pooling, accessing trapped cash, intercompany netting, etc.
  • Some participants are using the situation to selectively get higher discounts for pre-paying suppliers: this can be an effective way to increase the return on cash
  • Generally, the participants are at the point where these challenges cause additional work, but none of them is particularly serious.

Working Capital Management

  • Typically, treasurers have to fund working capital, but they do not manage it.
  • In all cases, there is a dialogue with the business about how much working capital the business can support, and how it can be reduced.
  • Higher interest rates are resulting in increased expense. Depending on the company, this may, or may not, be reflected in the measurements of the business units.
  • The participants all agreed with the business need to hold more inventory, but a dialogue is required to make sure this doesn’t get out of control. One participant works with the business on resisting calls to change payment terms, while another helps arrange pre-funding for suppliers, when needed.

Contributors:

This report was produced by Monie Lindsey based on a Treasury Peer Call chaired by Damian Glendinning

To access this report:

Access to the full report is available to Premium Subscribers of ComplexCountries. Please log in on the website of ComplexCountries to access the download.
Please contact ComplexCountries to find out about their subscription packages.

MENA Investment Banking Review First Nine Months 2022

02-11-2022 | treasuryXL | Refinitiv | LinkedIn |

Refinitiv Deals Intelligence brings you the MENA Investment Banking performance review, covering First Nine Months 2022.
Access this report for Investment Banking fees, volumes, and league tables across M&A, Equity Capital Markets, and Debt Capital Markets. Examine deal flows, top deals, most active nations, and most active sectors.

 


Report Highlights

INVESTMENT BANKING FEES 
An estimated US$1.1 billion worth of investment banking fees were generated in the Middle East & North Africa during the first nine months of 2022, 5% more than the same period in 2021 and the highest first nine-month total since 2008.  Almost half of this year’s fees were generated during the first three months of the year, with quarterly fees declining in the following two quarters.  Fees totalled US$186.4 million during the third quarter of 2022, the lowest quarterly total in the region in six years.
MERGERS & ACQUISITIONS
The value of announced M&A transactions with any MENA involvement reached US$69.7 billion during the first nine months of 2022, 17% less than the value recorded during the same period in 2021.  Despite the decline in value, the number of deal announcements in the region increased 5% from last year to the highest first nine-month total since our records began in 1980.
EQUITY CAPITAL MARKETS
MENA equity and equity-related issuance totalled US$15.3 billion during the first nine months of 2022, the highest first nine-month total since 2008.  Proceeds raised by companies in the region increased 166% compared to the first nine months of 2021, while the number of issues increased 110%.
DEBT CAPITAL MARKETS
MENA debt issuance totalled US$18.3 billion during the first nine months of 2022, down 80% from the value recorded during the same period in 2021 and the lowest first nine-month total since 2011.  The number of issues declined 68% from last year at this time.

Download the report

Interview | 8 questions for Konstantin Khorev, Seasoned Treasury Professional

01-11-2022 | treasuryXL | Konstantin Khorev | LinkedIn |

 

Meet our newest expert for the treasuryXL community, Konstantin Khorev.

Konstantin has 18+ years of experience in corporate treasury, gained in various environments: from public companies with +100BUSD turnover, to PE and privately owned companies, as well as at a prominent treasury consulting firm.

Being exposed to a wide range of different challenges and projects, Konstantin has built a strong expertise in the full spectrum of treasury and risk activities and in cross-functional collaboration and treasury partnership with business operations, tax, accounting, audit, and internal control.

Konstantin holds a Ph.D. degree in financial mathematics and is a CFA charter holder since 2009.

 

We asked Konstantin 8 questions, let’s go!

INTERVIEW

 

1. How did your treasury journey start?

In 2005 I changed my career path from investment management to corporate finance with a leading oil major. Couple of years later, being already a professional with several years of experience in related areas, I decided to join the treasury department within the same company. I made my decision mainly because of a great team and a lot of challenging projects there – we basically were requested to bring best practices into treasury function in multinational corporation with +100BUSD turnover. The first project was setting up an international multicurrency cash pool structure.

2. What do you like about working in Treasury?

Cross-functional collaboration (business, accounting, FP&A, tax), possibility to implement projects that make structural changes, e.g. in how company manages cash and financial risks, make payments, automate processes, etc.

3. What is your Treasury Expertise and what expertise gives you a boost of energy?

Change and project management, setting up a function from scratch or bringing best treasury practices, with special personal interest in the area of automation and data analysis. Having my first background in mathematics and computer science I also like to develop my own IT solutions (python, VBA, SAP scripting) that can solve certain automation or data problems and thus bridge a gap between client’s needs and available market solutions. Observing the professional growth of team members, I am coaching or used to coach is also a big source of excitement to me.

4. What has been your best experience in your treasury career until today?

I would say I can not highlight one single project. I enjoy and I am proud of every moment when I see the change realized, or cost-reduction/value-added created.

5. What has been your biggest challenge in treasury?

Setting up supply chain financing in a country where our team and company have been among pioneers implementing the product. Apart from tax, legal, accounting challenges related to the jurisdiction, as well as bank negotiation it required a lot of effort to explain the benefits and persuade all the stakeholders (from CFO to supply managers and suppliers). The ultimate result was more than rewarding: win-win solution both for the company decreasing working capital needs by 50% and for the suppliers getting access to much cheaper (and sometimes even unavailable at all) bank financing.

6. What’s the most important lesson that you’ve learned as a treasurer?

Invest time explaining what treasury is about and why certain things are crucial for internal counterparties.

7. How have you seen the role of Corporate Treasury evolve over the years?

Playing bigger and bigger role as a business partner to other functions. Embedding more opportunities that are provided by IT solutions.

8. What developments do you expect in corporate treasury in the near and further future?

Automation and machine learning to play more role in daily and later strategical treasury operations. Distributed Ledger Technology (blockchain is an example) still to show its full potential. Fintech companies substituting banks in more areas and having bigger market size.

 

Want to connect with Konstantin? Click here

 

Thanks for reading!

 

 

Kendra Keydeniers

Director Community & Partners, treasuryXL

Optimising cash and liquidity through currency management

31-10-2022 | treasuryXL | Kantox | LinkedIn |

Can you improve cash and liquidity management with the help of more effective currency management? The answer is: yes, you can! In this article, we see how currency management and cash management are, in effect, joined at the hip.


Five important touchpoints

There are at least five crucial, yet sometimes unduly neglected, touchpoints between FX risk management and cash or liquidity management. Let me briefly set the stage first. Then I will discuss their interactions.

(1) Swapping. Adjusting the company’s hedging position to the cash settlement of the underlying commercial exposure requires a lot of swapping.

(2) Collateral. In a world of shifting interest rates, treasurers need solutions that allow them to optimise collateral management.

(3) Working capital management. Solutions to improve working capital and liquidity are rarely mentioned in the context of FX risk management. Yet, they exist!

(4) Netting. Netting allows companies to generate savings in trading costs and in terms of the cash balances needed to satisfy collateral requirements.

(5) Cash flow forecasting. According to a recent survey by HSBC, more than half of treasurers worldwide say that cash flow forecasting is the most important task in treasury.

How and when currency management meets liquidity management

Take the case of a hedging program designed to protect the FX budget rate. It includes stop-loss orders to protect the FX rate used in pricing or a ‘worst-case scenario’ FX rate. It can also include profit-taking orders to lock in more favourable exchange rates.

As long as the stop-loss orders are not hit, hedge execution is postponed. This means that the cash required for collateral requirements can be set aside at a later date. It also means that treasurers have more time to improve their cash flow forecasts.

And it’s not over yet! Hedging incoming firm sales/purchase orders or invoices leads to very precise currency hedging. This means that purchasing managers are in a position to buy confidently in the currency of their suppliers. These, in turn, will be more inclined to grant extended paying terms.

With the perfect end-to-end traceability that comes with automated programs, managers can safely aggregate exposures without fear of losing the benefits of data granularity. This can create more netting opportunities, again reducing the need to set aside cash in terms of collateral.

Finally, swapping can be easily automated.

And voilà!

Feedback effects

That’s how effective FX risk management ends up improving liquidity management. Note that the process feeds on itself. Let me give you an example. Because swap automation releases valuable treasury resources, treasurers can take advantage of the benefits of using more currencies. Automated swap execution, therefore, improves not only the cash management part of the FX workflow but also —indirectly— working capital management.

That’s what I call a win-win situation!